Question for Gun-Control Advocates?
I’m sure you are all bitter about today’s ruling by the SC. My question is this: Gun-Ban people tend to think that banning guns will reduce gun crime. Perhaps it will to a minute degree. However, the vast majority of gun crimes are not domestic, they occur on the street by criminals. Now, (stay with me) Criminals, by their very nature, pay no attention to the gun bans in places like Chicago or DC. How is it logical then, to assume that a ban will help? It basically disarms honest people and leaves them at the mercy of the criminals.
ex: Marijuana is banned in all 50 states, yet is probably as pervasive as tylenol. If this ban didn’t work, why would a similar ban on guns work? It obviously didn’t in Chicago or DC. They have total bans and STILL have the highest crime rates per capita in the country.
Help me out here.
Conservative gun-owner playing Devil’s Advocate here: One argument is that gun-control will stop the proliferation of guns throughout a population. The fewer guns “on the streets”, the fewer crimes that can be committed with them.
Make no mistake though; responsible gun ownership is a deterrent to crime and an indispensable right to the individual. If criminals were breaking into my house, I’d hate to have to wait for the police to arrive before I could defend my family!
Bingo Joe.
Moreover, these liberals should look at the civil liberties aspect.
It is our inalienable RIGHT (not a privilege) to own a firearm, and the government should acknowledge this. If they don’t, they’ll have to decide which one of them wants to my house and pick up my guns– and see that I won’t give up my guns, and see that I’ll put a hole thru em!
Always remember, when a person wants a high, they will get it and when a person wants to kill, they will find a way. Gun control will not stop killing no more than making drugs illegal will stop drug abuse.
In the entire history of prohibitive government policies,the thing being banned has risen in value from an increased demand. I don’t mind todays ruling. But I do disagree with you on one point. You say most gun crime is from hoodlums on the street. I believe the stats say that most people that are shot are shot by a family member or some one they know well. It is domestic. But the guns in these crimes tend to be registered and completely legit.
You’re mostly correct. Actually, there are DECADES worth of evidence-based, peer-reviewed criminology publications that show that gun control either has no effect on violent crime or actually increase violent crime through selective disarmament of law-abiding citizens. Here’s just one example: http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf.
Moreover, there has NEVER been even ONE peer-reviewed criminology publication that has shown that gun control reduces violent crime. Where do mass shootings occur? At shooting ranges, where everyone is armed, every day? No, they occur in gun-free zones (schools, churches, some malls, federal buildings, etc.). Nearly ever single mass shooting in my lifetime occurred in a gun-free zone.
If you plot a map of violent crime rates versus gun control laws in the U.S., you’ll find the areas with the strictest gun control laws have the most violent crime, and vice versa.
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure this out. How does it make sense to target ILLEGAL guns with LAWS? They’re already illegal, as is violence. There are over 40,000+ gun control laws in the U.S., and they fail miserably. Why? B/c criminals disobey the law–that’s what makes them criminals! They’re nothing more than a waste of our tax dollars.
Then there are multiple historic examples of what happens when governments disarm their people (the Holocaust, the genocide in Darfur), etc.
So gun control…. is a policy based on no evidence, no logic, and no supportive lessons from history or successful examples. How does that sound like “common sense” legislation to people like Obama?
I’m called a Lib but i hate the idea of a gun ban. I like that criminals know that i have a shot gun in my house that will blow a hole in them the size of Texas. And God forbid enemy troops land on U.S. soil i want to be able to blow a hole in them too. Have i mentioned the constitution?
Banning Guns will not end Gun Violence. DC has a Ban on all Guns, yet DC has the highest incident of Gun Violence than any City in USA.
Great Britain has a Ban on guns which extends to their ‘Bobby’s’ Great Britain has a extremely High rate of Gun Violence.
It’s moronic to think that banning guns will stop a criminal from owning one, and has been proven to have absolutely NO effect on the amount of violent crimes committed with them. It makes no sense and ensures that the only people who will be carrying guns are criminals! As long as the bad guys have them (which will be always), everyone else needs to be free to carry their guns with them to protect themselves if they so choose.
I’m a Democrat and am very pleased with today’s ruling! I believe in gun control ONLY when it comes to dealing with felons and those with mental illnesses.
Yes there are to many guns in the hands of the wrong people
I think there should be a heavier sentence if a gun is used in a crime. The courts have been to lenient on repeat offenders.
Honest people should be able to protect themselves.
I don’t know how we can mandate this control but a total gun ban would be wrong and hurtful to most Americans
Don’t ban guns, make buying bullets as hard as buying a handgun.
I am for gun rights, but there has to be reasonable limits.
I’ll never understand trying to ban guns. The only way to get rid of them would be to destroy every gun on this earth. But people would figure out a way to still make one. You are dead on. Drugs are illegal and they are everywhere. People who fight this are the biggest waste of time IMO. Get another cause.
Criminals don’t get their guns through legal channels. So it’s always boggled my mind how people think that by eliminating the legal channels to own guns that they’ll stop criminals from getting them…
In Kennesaw Georgia, this is an example of the success of guns. It’s the law that everyone MUST own a gun in Kennesaw, If you DON’T have a gun, you are breaking the law, and guess what, their crime is zero, every year for several decades since this law was passed. So, I guess that blows away the so called “statistics” from liberal harvard.
They stab each other to death in England and put the old farmer who shoots the people robbing him …7 times they robbed him, in prison. Criminals will never be without weapons or a way to harm honest people. I for one do not wish to be defenseless. The main reason for the 2nd amendment was to be able to defend ourselves from invaders….and our government if need be. Sorry Im not a gun control person, i had to answer this though. Most gun control advocates have no experience with firearms whatsoever. They form an opinion without any real information. They rely on leftwing nutjobs and believe every word they say. How many gun control people have you asked why they favor taking guns and the response is cuz I just dont like em.
TV I agree with you that mentally unstable and or criminal people should not have guns…there are already laws for that. Enforcement of the laws on gun crime is terrible. Shouldnt matter how you murder someone, the penalty should be the same if it is in fact murder. I disagree with you on your comments about AK-47’s. Personally i think if you want to use the “milita” argument then we should all be keeping military grade M-16s in our houses. I dont own a rifle like that, but its mainly because they cost too much for me to justify buying one. People dont use them to hunt bears man, but they should be able to own them if they choose. As for killing a bear with a shotgun…sure it can be done, people use bows to kill em too. I dont need a 270 to kill a deer, but i feel alot more comfortable using enough gun than too little. Your views are somewhat skewed as to why we have the right to bear arms. Its not about hunting. The training comes with the raising. My dad taught me to respect guns and also taught me the consequences of screwing up. Maybe gun safety should be taught in our schools to our kids, for those kids whose parents wont teach them. We used to get hunter safety taught when I was in school, why not gun safety, and proper use.
What modern day liberals refuse to accept is that states and municipalities who support the constitutional right of people to possess handguns have much lower crime rates than those who don’t. Also, criminals do not abide by laws and will always get their hands on weapons. I am not a violent man, but any murderous, crack-induced, repeat felon who intends upon doing harm to my family will be stopped in his tracks. It is equally as important to know that police officers are a reactive force, not a pro-active one.
TO JK: Well said!
SUPERCAL: Sounds like more left-wing psycho-babble to me. There are no statistics to support your claim.
Dude I am feelin ya. When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have them. I have a right to bear arms. I don’t have a right to shoot anybody. I do have the right to defend myself,my property,my family and these here United States of America. You can take my gun from my cold dead marijuana flavored fingers.
Joe I think I answered this earlier.
I live in an area in the southwest where we ALL carry concealed or in the open.
We do NOT have major crimes as a rule.
We DO end up with dead aaa-holes from time to time that try…
Prohibition doesn’t work.
It is scary that 4 out of 5 justices of the Supreme Court are so liberal and leftist that the Second Amendment just about got thrown away today….under the bus, trampled upon and ignored! And anyone who does not believe if Obama became president he will appoint more of their and his kind and surely our constitution will be bombarded and destroyed! Guns will not be the only thing taken away from USA citizens!
That is a perfect example! However libs act on emotion not facts…
http://www.gunowners.org/fs0404.htm
The Sullivan Law in N.Y.C. restricted gun ownership to the degree that crimes against citizens rose to a high level that still has no dropped to what it was previously. It made Murder Incorporated the most profitable business in the city.
The right to bear arms is the basis of all human freedom.
I think this question has been answered better than any I have ever read on here. Very few insults, no NRA slogans Etc. Thanks people, that is refreshing to see. I just have one point to make. Not all liberals support gun control. In fact most liberal politicians know it would be committing political suicide to even bring it up as somethinng other than a local or state ban. Both parties in any state other than California or the East coast know better.
One thing to consider about criminals and guns is this – if you go thru prison reports, you find out instances where the inmates used a self-made FIREARM to hurt or kill another inmate – HOW do these locked-up criminals get a gun?!? Why, by using Shop class, and using the lathes and mills to make their OWN guns while still in PRISON! (oh, yes, these machines are allowed, by liberals and ACLU lawyers, no doubt, to “help” the poor criminal get a job once out of prison…how “helpful”). If our own government can’t stop locked-up prisoners from obtaining and creating firearm weapons like a Zip gun in a WELL-REGULATED environment, how do you reasonably expect them to control ANY firearms out in the real world? You can NOT. So give the honest citizen back his LEGAL RIGHTS to defend himself, and forget eliminating guns. It will NEVER, EVER work.
– The Gremlin Guy –
Chicago and DC obviously don’t enforce cause those crimes are still being committed with guns. It’s like the illegal immigrant situation. The government has always known they’re here but does little or nothing to export them.
I’m assuming you want an honest answer and not just people to agree with you, so here’s an honest answer:
1. I’m a gun-control advocate but I do not support a total ban. I think reasonable restrictions are necessary for the safety of the population. Ex: A waiting period to ensure the purchaser of the gun is not a criminal and is not mentally unstable would be helpful for the majority of the population. While criminals won’t obey, they shouldn’t be allowed to rely on the law for assistance in committing their crimes.
2. A large number of guns owned by people who intend to use them for defensive purposes are used against the owner of the gun b/c the owner doesn’t have the proper training to use the gun effectively. It’s actually the same reason that pepper spray is only effective if the person who owns the pepper spray knows how to use it and uses it effectively when confronted. The difference between guns and pepper spray is, of course, their effectiveness in killing someone (see point 4 below).
3. One of the earlier commenters is correct: it is believed that gun control will restrict the flow of arms into the general community for second-hand sale. No one needs and AK-47. If you’re a real sportsman, you’re a wimp to use it to kill a deer/bear or anything else (particularly since my grandfather killed a bear with a shotgun… no, I don’t know what kind, and yes it’s totally possible he made that story up to explain why a bear’s head sat on his wall, but the point still stands). If you’re not a real sportsman, you probably have no legal purpose or reason to own an AK-47. As a result, anyone who legally purchases an AK-47 will likely sell it at some point, and that’s where the stream of commerce comes into play. Once a gun is put into the stream of commerce, any criminal or mentally incapacitated individual can get ahold of it. And if not a criminal or mentally incompetent person, then probably someone who wants to protect themselves but aren’t properly trained.
4. It’s true that people who are intent on killing will find a way to kill, but many of them would be a lot less effective with a knife or a pickaxe or whatever your second-choice weapon is. Those extra moments or minutes of being able to fight with someone wielding a knife versus a gun can mean the difference between life and death.
5. I’m not bitter about the S.Ct.’s ruling, but I don’t think it’s accurate. In reading the 2nd Amendment today, the Supreme Court completely disregarded the language of “a well-regulated milita, being necessary.” It essentially deemed that language to be superfluous, which violates the tenants of statutory and constitutional interpretation that the Supreme Court usually relies on. Given my difference with the SCOTUS interpretation, you should realize that I disagree with the earlier answerer who said that owning a gun is a “right.” It’s not. It’s a privilege for people who can prove themselves responsible. Inalienable rights are those rights that span the existence of time, those rights recognized in the Declaration of Independence. Rights like the right to religion, thought, expression, and yes, even the right to self-defense. But *how* you self-defend is not a guarantee right. It’s why you can’t buy or produce or a nuclear weapon to protect your house.
6. The lack of training required for purchasers of guns should be of concern to everyone. This goes back to the absolute right vs. privilege. It’s not my right to own a gun without training any more than it’s my right to drive a car without training. Why should I get to own a gun if I don’t know how to properly aim and shoot it? If I aim it incorrectly, I could kill an innocent bystander. If I don’t know how to shoot it correctly I’ll either leave the safety on so that the criminal gets the gun and then uses it against me or I won’t position my stance appropriately and the kickback from the gun will knock me off target and I may kill and innocent bystander. As a result, I would be much more likely to favor regular gun ownership if people were required to learn how to be safe and responsible gun owners, just like they’re required to be safe and responsible drivers. Both a car and gun, if used in the wrong hands or by inexperienced users, can kill innocent bystanders and therefore owners of both should be required to have proper training. Your right to own a gun to defend yourself doesn’t supersede my right to walk down the street in safety without fear that your irresponsibility won’t end my life.
So, I hope this helps answer your question as to why people support gun control. For the record, every man in my family owns a gun and so does my sister. I grew up around responsible gun ownership and have eaten ducks and other wildlife killed by people in my family. So this really isn’t about a distrust of guns but of the people who don’t know how to use them.
I’m a gun control advocate, but you seem to be pretty level headed. Your point is well taken and understood. But if guns were banned long ago, and your everyday person never owned one, wouldn’t criminals who use guns to kill have a harder time getting getting them, considering so many guns are stolen?
If it was against the law to own a store that sells guns, that would also be a deterrent
Unfortunately, we do live in a violent society, but if you want to stop the violence you have to start somewhere.
To ALL Anti-gunners:
I am sorry you have as much as a right NOT to own or use a firearm as I do TO own or use a firearm. I do not go around forcing people to buy, own, sell, use, or hold handguns. How is that you can try and force me not to. Basically what it comes down to is just leave us alone. We have just as much right.
Gaspode is correct. Freedom depends on the right to bear arms.
Anti gun laws have not reduced crime anywhere they have been tried. Australia is a good example.
Remember when police in London didn’t carry? Then strict anti-gun laws were passed and the number of violent crimes increased. Now they carry. Last time I was there, it was St. Patrick’s Day and many were openly carrying full auto weapons.
Half-baked laws, like making it impossible to get ammunition are just as illegal as the many unconstitutional laws that have been passed by very emotional but little informed politicians.
I was living in San Francisco in 1958 when three prisoners broke out of San Quentin prison. They carjacked a family in a station wagon and fled up highway 101. Police chasing them were quite surprised when their vehicles were struck with bursts of full automatic weapons fire. Seems the cons had made a full automatic weapon and ammunition in the prison shops. Details were never released of what they had made, for obvious reasons.
People trying to subvert the obvious intention of the Second Amendment are not doing the country a service. Particularly with politicians in office who would love to dictate rather than represent.